Zane Hengsperger (Founder/CEO, Nox Metals)

Zane Hengsperger, founder and CEO of Nox Metals is focused on fixing one of manufacturing’s most overlooked bottlenecks; getting raw material fast, reliably, and without friction. 

In this episode of Just Gonna Send It, Jim and Zane walk through his path from growing up around a machine shop to a brief run in tech, and ultimately back into manufacturing to build something of his own. They get into why software alone is not enough, how applying technology to simple processes creates real leverage, and what it actually takes to stand up a physical operation from scratch. From buying and rigging a massive saw to running the shop themselves after hours, it is a conversation about moving fast, learning by doing, and building where it matters.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Tom and I right now are actually in our uh lactation room. Is that what it's called?

SPEAKER_02 0:05

All you're doing is moving dirt to other places. You're gonna have to do cleaning because I didn't like put water or soap in it.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

If you're a filmmaker in middle school, like you might be able to run an industrial process.

SPEAKER_02 0:13

So like your network will save your ass a lot of times.

SPEAKER_01 0:16

You had like a bunch of pipes or something in the backyard. And yes, uh X giveth and X taketh away. Hey guys, welcome to the Just Gonna Send It podcast. I'm your host, Jim Belostik. Um do I say who I am? Like CEO of Senco Send? Anyway, that's who I am.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

No, I'm Jim Belostic because your thing is gonna pop up.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Whatever. That's it. I'm Jim Belostik. Uh today with me, a very, very special guest, Zayn Hanksburgger. Or Hanksberger, uh the founder-CEO of Knox Metals, amongst other things, right? What is your title, Zane?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Yeah, that's that's technically it. Founder CEO.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

Okay. Um if you are on X, Twitter, whatever, uh, you definitely know Zayn. Zane is uh kind of the the big dog when it comes to manufacturing in the US, reindustrializing the US. What what would you call your online personality?

SPEAKER_02 1:19

Oh, a good question. Just uh I think my Twitter bio is like a proponent of like a hundred times more factories and like abundant technology, technological, technologically advanced capacity in the US. So I like to talk about those things.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

Yeah. Um, but it's not a bunch of bullshit because there's a lot of bullshit out there where people are like, oh, we need humanoids and AI and lights out factories and automation and everything. And you kind of raised your hand and you're like, actually, we need the freaking basics. Like we need metal, like we just need chunks of metal, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Exactly, yeah. I mean, I always tell people cutting metal is one of the simplest things in the world. I like to think that you know, our software is maybe one of the hardest things. Um, but like you kind of combine something simple with like a lot of technology, and you can actually support a lot of American manufacturers, and that's that's really our goal.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

So tell me, tell the audience actually a little bit about uh Nox metals. Like, what do you guys do?

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Yeah, so Nox metals is a modern metal service center. So um, you know, if you walked in and looked at things, you'd see some automation, but really it'd be take big pieces of metal and cut them into smaller pieces of metal. Um, the difference with Nox is like we're basically writing code to solve every single problem that like maybe an older um metal service service center might have. And like a lot of the problems in a service center are just like not humanly possible. So when you go on to Nox, you know, some of our customers, the things they like is that they get quotes in like milliseconds, you know, not hours or days. And then when a quote does come in, we're essentially estimating like job time so we can free up more capacity for you. You know, when when people do submit an order with multiple blocks, we like nest them automatically across like tens of thousands, eventually hundreds of thousands of combinations on the shop floor. Um, so we're really just trying to optimize everything, move faster so that American manufacturers get metal cheaper and faster.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, you're you're doing the Lord's work. Um it's such a pain in the ass, especially you know, if you're if you're a massive company, if you're a massive OEM, uh the service centers will bend over backwards for you. You know, they're if if you want to buy, you know, uh 20,000 tons at a time, it it's no problem. But if you're uh anywhere above a home gamer who's gonna order from McMaster uh to below that OEM level, it's it's actually really damn difficult to you know even have someone just give you a quote or return an email. Uh so yeah, with Nox, I mean you guys are solving that. So uh good job, dude. But that's uh that's where you're at today. Uh let's talk about how you started. So before we started recording, I was saying, you know, I don't think in third grade you were like, I'm I'm gonna have this huge ass band saw and and you know kind of slowly uh support America by selling aluminum blocks. Like sure. What did you do when you were little? What did what did you want to do?

SPEAKER_02 4:14

It's a good question. Um when I was little, I wanted to be a director. And and uh you know, my parents took me to Hollywood and we did the tour of like Sony Studios and Warner Brothers. I still think those are incredible tours, and uh yeah, I just wanted to like create things, film stuff, and I've always been like creative, I guess. And uh yeah, it's kind of kind of funny. No one's asked me that in a while, and I haven't thought about that in a while, but like that that is what I wanted to do in like third grade.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

So, how far did you go down the director path? Is there is there some like hidden Zane movies that need to be released?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Not just now, there is, and uh you know, I I don't know, I would just record a lot of random stuff. Like we'd skateboard a ton and I'd make these films, or like I had like uh a camera where like you flip open the thing and you first record, and that there's that there's no trace of that thing. It's probably gonna landfill somewhere, but like I would like create movies and then I'd like go on like my mom's computer, use the editing software, and like literally try to like create movies. Um it for some reason at some point something changed where I stopped doing that, but uh um yeah, I I I guess I did make a few short films, no clue what they were about.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Um so that's uh are we talking like middle school, high school?

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Middle school, like very young. I mean high school, not like I guess it's funny. I always kind of enjoyed and like even like with Nox A, like I I still post most of our Instagram reels. I mean, one of our guys from Knicks helps us out a ton. I still love filming stuff and like making content. Um, I wish I had more time for it, but like yeah, high school that was kind of true too. Like uh my dad had a machine shop, and you know, I was the one who set up the Facebook page for him. Um, you know, I think I I actually set up their LinkedIn and all that stuff, and I was doing content for them too. Um, one of the films I made was literally like a factory tour of like advantage engineering at the time, and uh that video is still on YouTube if you want to go check it out. Some guy helped me, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Sweet. So I I think that's actually interesting, like the the path of like director filmmaker to industrialist. Um it's a trend that we're seeing more and more. I guess you can be really, really good at manufacturing and have a good product, but if no one knows about it, you're not gonna get any orders and you can't scale. So having that in your back pocket, like knowing how to put yourself out there, like I mean, just you know, how popular you are on X and um and on Instagram and making reels and kind of showing people behind the scenes, I think that probably is modern manufacturing. I mean, do you think that's a trend? Or yeah, is it yeah?

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Like I think probably 1% of manufacturers do that, but you do see a lot of the content, but that I always see that's a testament to how many manufacturers there are, especially um in the West. And uh I think it's a huge untapped resource for a lot of folks. Like, you know, I think I was talking to these guys today, and they're just like, hey, how do we post? What do we do? And like I I always say, like, hey man, just do like one a day or something, like pick a platform, do one a day, whatever you want, whatever feels right for you. And like, I think I'm sure you guys can relate to this. You just have a nice Instagram, but like our LinkedIn and Twitter accounts for like a decent amount of our leads, like almost 30, 40 percent.

SPEAKER_01 7:40

So wow, wow, that's yeah, that's it's it makes sense, I think, to um you know, people getting started, like especially you're a lot younger than me. Uh, you grew up, you know, native with Facebook and Instagram and everything like that. Uh, I think for a lot of legacy manufacturers, they don't consider it. You know, they they're like, well, I put an ad in the newspaper. Um I think for a lot of startups and you know people listening to this, in order to be successful, yes, you have to have a good product, but you have to tell people about it too. So good marketing and and just having it like come naturally, especially from the CEO level, is really important. Um, because I don't know, you have to know like how to sell yourself too. So it's it's something that's really difficult to learn. So if you're a filmmaker in middle school, like you might be able to run an industrial process.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Yeah, I actually I'm a believer that if you're a filmmaker in middle school, you could provide like debatably the most amount of value to a manufacturing company that's like maybe mid to small to mid than like anyone else in the factory, which is like gonna be a really hot take. But like um distribution these days is like one of the only exponential things you can do, and that's like really hard to uh it's not you can just kind of it has to be the right person. There's like a really good sense of taste in my eyes. Like again, I don't think I'm great at it, and I would just love to find someone like amazing. I got decent butt. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:05

Yeah, good opportunity for young people. Just go post up. Um we have people write in all the time. They're like, hey, we want to, we wanna, you know, help you with social media or whatever. The best ones actually just hang out in the parking lot and film trucks and the dumpsters being loaded or whatever, and then cut us a reel and they're like, check this out, this is what I did. Okay, fine, fine. Yes, okay, we'll we'll give you some work. Yeah, but it's it's also the kids who are like just wildly motivated. Yeah. You know, sending an email is one thing, but then like proving your work with an example is is really important too. So, okay, so we're moving on to like a high school or maybe after high school or whatever. You said your dad had a machine shop, and is that where you were working?

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah, so the I'll never forget the first picture of it on my computer. The first job I ever had was uh, you know, one of those uh floor scrubbers, you press them down and it moves, and you kind of just walk behind it. That was my first job, and it's funny, I actually was really bad at it because he would come out and basically say, like, the all you're doing is moving dirt to other places. You're not actually cleaning because I didn't like put water or soap in it. Um so that was my first job. And uh yeah, that was fun. Uh look at the time I hated it. Looking back, I'm like, what an incredible opportunity. Like, I don't know if my dad was singing that way, but like it was it like I I can detest maybe some of the wet part of the way I am today is like because of that. Um but like glad I did it looking back. And then like I got I got stuck on a lathe for a summer, maybe in like ninth or tenth, ninth or tenth grade. A lot of short sleeves, a lot of podcasts. Try to not get stuck in that thing. But that was cool. And then just like some tool making. Um I went try to build a computer one year. I worked at the crane, I got forklift certified, which was a big deal in my career. And then uh I I like started cutting the grass a lot, there was a big yard, and then uh I started learning how to drive the delivery trucks, and that was a really cool experience because I would just go to other shops all day that would do like outsourced work for us, like or like put holes in things that we can do. And I talked to those guys, see what they were up to. And like again, at the time, I'm like only realizing this like in the last two years. At the time, I was like, oh, like you could do this thing, and then my problems are so big and all that stuff, right? So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

Yeah, I I think getting exposed to one shop is really cool. Like that's that's probably 80% of the battle. But being able to be exposed to a bunch of shops is like really magic. Because like my kids, my my daughter's 19 now, my son is 16, um, and they've both worked at the shop. And you know, my son this summer, you know, he's driving now, he needs a job. Um, he's like, hey dad, I want to come back to the shop and work. And I was like, no, no, you need to go work anywhere else except for here. Uh you need to you need to go try some different things and see how it's done other places. That that's actually one of the things that we do just in general in our culture here is like borrow ideas from other industries. So if if he goes and works at the ice cream place, but it turns out that they have like a really cool payroll system, like I want to know about that. Yeah. You know, or maybe their onboarding thing is is really, really cool. Um but yeah, if you can work at other shops or at least like get in the door and see what kind of equipment exists, and I I don't know. That's that's a pretty awesome opportunity. Yeah. Um did you go to college?

SPEAKER_02 12:34

Yeah, I went to college in Ann Arbor, Michigan. So I I uh actually one of the guys I lived with works here now. But yeah, I went to uh University of Michigan.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Okay. What'd you study?

SPEAKER_02 12:44

I did econ, um, which is kind of just like a loose thing I chose. I studied like some entrepreneurship, I did some like computer science classes. Uh I I actually took this really interesting like statistics class. Like I took some math classes because I was gonna minor in it. Um yeah, I just I had to pick a major. I I I almost should have done like if I go back, I would do like computer science, honestly, but like I was very close just doing like a general um what's it called, degree.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Was that on purpose where you're just like I don't really know what I want to do? Or I mean, were you gonna go with work for your dad? Or what did that look like?

SPEAKER_02 13:23

Well, when I was in college, like so I I guess I entered college when I was 19, and my dad sold the business when I was 21. Um, so I was in college, like I wasn't really involved in him doing that, but like um I was yeah ask him about it, I was really proud of him, and he's like my my best friend today. But like I don't know why I picked Econ. I don't know. Why did I pick Econ? I think my life's changed so much recently. I I actually liked startups and I liked the idea of like people implementing technology, and I didn't know what I wanted to do, and I kind of wanted to touch everything with and I thought like econ was a way to like learn about business and the world. Like at the time I really liked Warren Buffett, and I still do, and uh I just thought econ was like a good general broad thing. I can still pick all these courses I want to. So and I thought like it'd be flexible to pick a career with econ at the time.

SPEAKER_01 14:16

Okay. If you had to go back, would you do the same thing over again? Or would you be a little more specific? No, what would you do?

SPEAKER_02 14:24

No, I'd do computer science, like probably a hundred percent. Um and then maybe like mathematics or statistics or something, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:33

Do you think it's more applicable to startups and entrepreneurship or yeah, 100%?

SPEAKER_02 14:40

Or is it like applicable to like sure, like startups and entrepreneurship 100%, and especially like and it's it's so easy to say that today because like everything's AI and you just start coding things and build pro like build solutions to your problems, where like it was harder to do that back in 2021 or 2022. So like yeah, just having like a good framework for that and being so far ahead of one, so being able to deploy stuff, build infrastructure, back end, all that stuff, like yeah, I think it it's a pretty safe bet. And like if you if you like kind of loop in mathematics and statistics into there, you can kind of like use the AI tools in ways that other people can't.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Okay. Yeah, I'm I'm actually surprised that you said computer science, just with how much you know, AI coding or vibe coding or whatever is happening. And like today is the worst it'll ever be. So in five years, it's gonna be pretty damn crazy. But I guess having some fundamentals and understanding what it's doing behind the scenes is makes you more powerful.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

Yeah, well, maybe I'm biased because like I'm sure you can you can attest to this, but like in the factory, like AI just doesn't know so much of the nuance we do, right? There's this gets cut the wrong way, or that guy can't lift that, or your forklift breaks, and like at the end of the day, like all these software products we're writing with mostly with AI, and like obviously architecting the back end and stuff, are just like so nuanced. So, like, yeah, maybe if you're writing like a fintech software, like, yeah, what's the point of learning computer science? But like if you're in the factory, like having a really good base for computer science is so incredibly strong because like you can't, I don't think like AI can write code for a factory in in a very long time.

unknown 16:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

It'll help you though.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

It I think uh like I I've seen I've seen a lot of like mini AIs or mini um like mini programs, like little tiny bits of software that can actually help out maybe one operator at one station. Those are magic. That's something that that you know could never happen. But to tie all of those together over an entire factory, plus all the nuances of like, oh, it's like super icy today and we can't get the forklift outside because it got stuck or whatever, it's it's really hard for AI to understand that. Maybe someday, maybe it'll look at the weather and understand that there's ice. But um, yeah, we're we're a ways from that. So uh all right, so you you graduated college, or did you graduate?

SPEAKER_02 17:05

Or yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_01 17:06

Yeah, okay. Some of us did, some of us didn't. It depends on the on the on the guest. Um and then and then what, right? Out of college, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Three days after college, I started my job at Uber. And uh that was just kind of something to do. I wanted to like be in like this high-growing tech company. I just wanted to get like my foot in the door. And uh I did quit after three months, if I can explain that, but that's what I did.

SPEAKER_01 17:31

Okay. Did you get hired on with your badass uh econ degree or I uh you know I don't know if I had much to do with the degree.

SPEAKER_02 17:41

Uh I think maybe the econ degree got me in the interview. Um, but like what I was doing wasn't much economics. I was actually like working with like restaurants and trying to like help them like user breeds.

unknown 17:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

So a lot of people don't know that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Okay, it sounds challenging. Um so then you're like, okay, screw Uber, there's gotta be something better.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Well, what was interesting about Uber, I was learning a lot, but I was like, I don't know what was in me. I was like, I I guess I still in this way, but like I was working so hard, and uh I it was I don't know, I was just like a big company, I was like, wow, I can have maybe a lot more impact than a small company. I actually even like humble brag here, but like got an award for like most output in the company, like in like one of one of those three months, and it was it was pretty cool. And like I was like, I gotta like maybe go do something that's like smaller with more impact because I can put all this energy into this and like you know, Uber stock is worth billions, so and I'm I'm still so like new and young to it, so like I actually just wanted to like start my own company. So I was like teamed up with a buddy, we like grow code and we started a software company.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Okay, what was that software?

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Yeah, it was actually like uh at first it was like an advertising marketplace. So like if you wanted to like go do something crazy, like I don't know, if you wanted to like advertise like or like at like the Las Vegas Stadium, like that's kind of a hard thing to do. Like you have to like contact someone and they have to get back to you, they have all these rates, like why not just like go upload your ad and like running and pay for it right away? Um, and it was only made for like this these crazy things. And uh eventually we kind of pivoted because the marketplaces are tough because people just like go around us at the other day, our software wasn't like connected and all this stuff. And we ended up talking to these people too that like owned the ad space, and they're like, Well, what if you just made it easier for people to like check out on our site? And I was like, Oh, that's kind of a good idea. Um, so we started building that, and we got customers, and I just think it was really impactful to their businesses because they didn't have to call people. It's actually kind of similar to like instant quoting and manufacturing, is instant quoting for billboard operators.

SPEAKER_01 20:00

Okay. So you you just pair up with your buddy, and you're like, I like did were you guys fans of advertising at stadiums, or how did you get this idea?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Yeah, it's a really good. I think I was trying to help my because my dad has this other business. I was trying to help him get an ad. No, this is what happened. An internship at a Series A company, and they told me go get a billboard for like for some event. It was actually in Vegas as well. And uh, I was trying to do it and it was like one of the most difficult things ever. I was like, why can't I just freaking do this? Almost like trying to get apart. Um and uh yeah, that's and then I was like, we gotta build this. Like, this is such a good opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

I I love that. I love I love the story of anytime someone is like pissed with the status quo, and they're like, that there's gotta be an easier way. Um what happened to that company?

SPEAKER_02 20:53

Yeah, so it was doing well, like pretty good ARR, and like I got manufacturing filled, and uh I basically um sold my portion of the company and like retained some equity. Um but that company now uh this is like I think that was like maybe two or three three years ago that sale happened, and uh they actually just shut it down like a month ago, unfortunately.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

Oh okay, yeah. Uh what is that like? What's it like to watch uh your your creation you know get shut down?

SPEAKER_02 21:33

It's a shame because like I actually thought we got offered a real like it wasn't like a venture backable at all. Like the market was so small, but it was a really good software. And like the people we helped is awesome. It's just like I think the lesson I learned there was like the people behind it are super important to like making it work. And you know, I think they just I don't know if they Like just stopped doing sales, stop writing code or whatever it was. Good guys, but like um maybe they I don't know. Yeah, it was it was kind of a shame.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Yeah, I I would say in my personal situation with my software company, I got fat and happy. It had good ARR, and yeah, when you're when you're making money, uh there's less pressure on improving the product. There's less pressure to talk to customers and figure new stuff out and innovate. Because you're just like, ah, I got money and I'm gonna go, you know, hang out in the garage or whatever. I mean, that's actually what led to Senkat Sen, but Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, when things when things kind of die like that, it's it's always weird when you had your stamp on them or you were there for the creation. But you said you got manufacturing pilled. So what happened? You're you're doing this like billboard cool advertising marketplace company thing, and then uh like my my dad, my dad always creeps back into these conversations.

SPEAKER_02 22:59

So like he he sold his company in 21, and this was for I don't know, whatever, like two two years later or something. Um and he knew this one uh shop was for sale, and I I don't he he didn't want to go do it, but he's like, man, like I still think you know there's a good industry, and like um you should just go check it out, and like I know some guys would be interested in doing it with you.

SPEAKER_01 23:23

Can I say the name? I think I think I know who it is.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

Uh it's not it's not Delta.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Oh, okay, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

It led to Delta.

SPEAKER_01 23:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:32

That whole thing. But no, we we end up seeing the shop, and then uh I like I I I'll never forget actually just walking in a factory again after like four, three or four years of not being in one, and I was like, oh my god, like this is like I I just thought like, oh, this is really cool. And like at the time I was kind of trying to like look for things no one else was doing. I was like, no one else my age is doing this. And then like I I always keep this book in my desk, like Technological Republic by Alex Kirp, and I like reading the back. It's like I do this in like almost like a lot of talks when people ask this story, and I go like I just say the back, so like one sentence The Technological Republic should be read by everyone who cares about how technology should contribute to the protection of American values and air security. And I was like, I read this book and I was like, wow, like why am I building advertising software? And then like I read Good Quest by Trey Stevens, and I was like, wow, this is like so cool. I learned so much more about manufacturing. I read like Kyle Harrison's like contrary article on like Hadrian and like how we're losing machine shops. And uh, you know, I I did more research on that, and like wow, everything that like my because my I came from like a community that was very machine shop heavy, like everyone worked at one or their parents or someone, or like one of the automakers, and like we're close to Detroit, and which I'm in now, but like it was like whoa, we're like really losing this, and we've shipped out so much. I was like, this seems just like on a mission I want to go on for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

So yeah, the the smell, the feel of a shop kind of brings everything back, especially like I I'm not gonna speak for you here, but I I did bullshit B2B SAS, and my kids didn't know what the hell I did. You know, they're like, my dad works on computers all day, and I don't know, he's grifting probably. Uh making something with your hands, like being out on the shop is is very, very satisfying. So what was the shop? It's it's for sale, and then you guys are like, hey, I I think I want to jump in.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, and then like we I don't know, the strategy kind of changed, but like I think my real interest was it was all those things, but it was also like I know software and I know technology, like we can really inject this place with like uh software. Um and like I I also kind of like learned that from my dad because he in like probably 2018 like hired three software engineers as like a machine shop, which I think was like pretty rare, and they built instant quoting because like he saw zoometry in front of labs and he's like, Oh, I want to do that. Um but yeah, uh like that was kind of my angle. So yeah, we were just like, We're looking at this one shop, and like we might as well start looking at more. And then yeah, that's how we kind of got to Delta, and I was just like always looking at the expense sheets. Where can we save money? Where can we build technology? How do we make parts cheaper? How do we compress lead times? Um, I don't went too far out of ourselves, but like metal kept popping up in those expense sheets. But uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Yeah, I think that's I think that's when I started following you. Uh you you were at Delta and you'd post pictures from the shop floor every day, and you know, you'd show like changes that you did, and you're like, hey, we improved the lighting, or you know, we did all this stuff. And I I remember like kind of watching your arc towards metal. You had like a bunch of pipes or something in the backyard. Tube. And yeah, tube, a bunch of tube, and uh so like so how how long you you guys acquired uh Delta or you or you became a partner or okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah. Um and tell tell everyone what Delta did.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

What what did Delta do?

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Delta's a great company, still around. It's actually a really hard thing for me to step away from because I I yeah. Um but Delta is a custom rack manufacturer, so like if all like if someone's making a part at production, usually an injection molded part or some sort of plastic part, it actually has to go on like this custom steel rack that's like totally optimal. Actually, Michigan State University has a packaging school, and like they just like feed out packaging engineers like Tesla, SpaceX, and like even some of these guys like Andoril and other companies are getting into packaging because like you have to hold some of these equipment with something, and it has to be custom, and you can't just throw it on a piece of wood, right? So they'd fabricate racks, yeah. It was awesome. Really good business, still around, doing really well. Um, really good people, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

But you were you were there for how long? Like, how long did you have ownership and then and then you sold it to what what is that what does that path look like?

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah, so I I was basically there for a year, and like of the forward partners, I was there every day, and like they were still doing their own thing. So it's kind of cool for me because I get to like really like lead the shop, like we're like 36 people, and I had to learn a ton. And yeah, so I was doing that for a year, and then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

But then the tube, the tube was calling your name.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

Well, yeah, I was like, I think uh like we were cutting so much tube, and there's all this tube in our yard, and like actually my first solution to this was like, oh, I'm just gonna like cut and sell tube, and like that's how I'm gonna start Knox. Um, but then like it really snowballed into doing research into like competitors and how like like I won't say far behind, but like lack of like software um they had uh vertically. Um but yeah, then uh which this is where maybe you came in the picture and of Twitter, and like you know, I was just always tweeting about this problem more and more, asking more and more customers, more and more friends who had machine shots about this, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Yeah. Um yeah, because I remember it was like, oh, I love to check in and see the progress of Delta 70 because I was what kind of watching like how a legacy shop could be transformed by someone like young and full of piss and vinegar, and you know, you're gonna go go figure it out, and then all of a sudden it kind of went quiet, and then you're like, check out, I bought a saw. Uh so you you get did you you got rid of your steak in Delta?

SPEAKER_02 29:48

Um no, like so you have to so you had to hold on to uh hold on to some and like nice okay. I uh I I guess I'm like not involved, but uh you know I they're still my friends, so I could check in and I guess it was a conversation and you know it was a very decision. Um no, because uh Delta orders a specific type of steel that uh we don't offer.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Okay. So maybe someday.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yeah, and like I don't know. I I always thought like, you know, to uh actually make sure we're offering value to customers. Like, I don't want to like go like not the cheat code route. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

So tell me about like you're you're at Delta, uh you see these this other problem, you know, you're like, okay, we got good at making steel racks, but you know, the going more vertical, I guess, like going to the raw materials, you're like, it's a pain in the ass to do this. Did you you have this idea for Knox? Um how do you how do you go about starting that? Like, did you bootstrap or you raise some money? Or like I know you were involved in YC at some point, or can you tell me about that? Yeah, for sure. So yeah, I had the idea.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

And I was actually kind of starting in a way, and uh, I made a pitch deck, and actually even before I made a pitch deck, I just like called a friend who I knew about metal and I said, like, what metal do you need to kind of go find it? And I was always trying to buy a bandsaw, and uh I was I was more so like tweeting about the problem too, and like I was I was gonna do it either way, and then um all of a sudden I got an email from Y Combinator, and they're just saying, like, hey, it was a cold email, and they were just like, Hey, would you apply to YC? Like I see each email of this idea. And uh Really?

SPEAKER_01 31:35

Like because of your do you think because of your Twitter presence? And they just like reach out?

SPEAKER_02 31:40

I think that's the only reason why.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

It's fucking amazing. That's dude. Well, you said X giveth X giveth and X taketh of way, yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

But I'd love to hear the take the story one day.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Yeah, there's some weird shit that happens, yeah. Um but dude, getting a cold email and they're just like, hey, we kind of like what you're doing, that's amazing. Does that happen often?

SPEAKER_02 32:01

They just thought it was like um, I don't know. Um they just thought I think it was like really maybe a unique perspective that no one else was talking about. And you know, the problem is massive, and like, you know, I think they just want to get on the phone and talk about it.

unknown 32:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

So yeah, we got on the phone in like 24 hours, like, oh no, it was like we got on the phone and then like it was a it was a short call and like YC does really short interviews, like they talked about this. I think we were on the phone for like 17 minutes. We got off, I thought it went well, and then um they emailed me again. They said, Hey, can you hop back on for five minutes? I was like, okay, like what question did I answer? And they're like, oh hey, like, uh, do you want to join YC? Like, what would love to offer you? And um, I I had like a weird option to like, and they were really kind about it. Um, but it was either start tomorrow YC because the batch actually started the day we were talking, or start in three months in the next batch. And uh some one of the partners said, like, well, it's up to you, but like, you know, a lot of people do better under pressure. And uh I was like, let me think about it. And then like I like, you know, went to talk to some people at work mainly, and uh yeah, then I was on a flight to San Francisco the next day.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

That's amazing, dude. So so can you talk a little bit about YC? Like, I don't know too much about it, but I know it's it's like this crazy incubator, right? Like they it's almost like m basic training or something to go be an entrepreneur, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Yeah, so there's like a lot of these accelerators that exist, right? So like you you get accepted and they kind of teach you some things about raising and then or building a company more so and raising money. Um, and there's a demo day at the end, and there's investors and all this stuff, right? The interesting thing about YC, and like this is what stand I think makes them stand out, is not only like their track record and reputation, but like YC gives like the biggest check just for you getting accepted. Like a lot of people you still have to do the program that you have to apply for the money at the end still. Um so that's why like I think YC is cool. Also, like insane network, insane reputation, and just like I actually did learn really cool things there. Um I was gonna say something that I thought was important, but like, yeah, I guess even for like hard tech, because a lot of people see YC as like software, like so many hard tech founders, like Boom Supersonic and Metal YC, it's like atomic industries, like Aaron Slodov, Kenneth, RMFG, um, Timmy, Forge, like a lot of these, these like cool manufacturing companies. Um, so yeah, like I mean, I don't know if they've ever had a metals company. Actually, I know they haven't, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

The the network is really, really interesting too because um, you know, I was I was telling my daughter she's going to college, and I was like, hey, if nothing else, just build a network out of it. Because when you're 25 or 30, uh one of your buddies is gonna have a job somewhere and maybe can get you a job, or maybe they're um they have connections or something like that. I was like, the networking opportunity is so incredible uh in you know, college or in a large company or whatever. YC is like turbocharged though. I mean, because all it's a it's a super deep network, it's almost like a fraternity or something. So because you could have people that got out of YC, you know, years ago, um, or they're in your same batch, and then you can you can call on those guys and ask for help, right?

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Yeah, 100%. That that happens all the time. Um we got an email that I'm trying to help right now that's in the current batch. Um, and he's like the space company, like it's like YC is like he's trying to go to space. Um, but yeah, I I totally agree on the network thing, even outside of YC, like one of my favorite people in the world I met on Twitter, and like um he does saw cutting like us. And there's been three times where we have to get in the truck and drive to Pennsylvania because we can't cut a block that big. So like your network will save your ass a lot of times.

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, yeah. Uh if nothing else, if if you're listening to this and you're young, uh like just hang on to those phone numbers, hang on to those connections. You never know when some guy's gonna get a job somewhere or start a cool company. Um that's my safety net. You know, I always try and have at least a half dozen people so that if I ever need a job, I can call them. Um I'm basically unemployable. But there's a few people that maybe I could work for at least briefly. So um Okay, so so YC the how how long is it? How long is the batch?

SPEAKER_02 36:38

It's a couple of uh eight weeks. I spend most of it Detroit. Like 99% of people spend it in San Francisco. So I was like back and forth every week because we're also building this factory behind me at the same time. I mean, not the factory itself, but putting the machinery and you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yeah. Okay, so yeah, you're busy as hell. Um and then you get out of YC, the factory's coming along. I I remember seeing you guys buy that frickin' massive saw. I've never seen anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

It's right behind me. I guess you can't really see it that well. There's a guy right now, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Can you go go check out go check out Zayn's X if you want to see more pictures of this thing? Can you tell me a little bit about that? Because I know it's it's huge. You got it used and then you had to transport it on a bunch of trucks.

SPEAKER_02 37:21

And what was that like?

SPEAKER_01 37:25

I'm a fan. I'm a I I'm a Zane fan, sorry.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, thank you. I mean, I mean, likewise, by the way. Um also we had these customers in today that were like raving about Sen Cut 10. I was like, we have the things you guys sent us for free overnight, which is so cool. And we actually have your email, something about your guys calling out our design, uh, which is funny because it was the worst hand drawing ever.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

But uh, it was terrible. It was absolutely we haven't hung off in our office. We we ended up making three different versions because there was three interpretations. It was missing data. It was like I forget what those things are. It's like if you're doing an IQ test, it's like Sally is six inches taller than Jane, but Jane is pregnant. And then you know, it's like unsolvable. It's like which one is the redhead? And I'm like, what the what am I seeing here? So we just made them all and like crossed our fingers. Yeah. So you're like, okay, you got some YC money. You're like, all right, I got I'm gonna light this money on fire. We're gonna get a saw. I got a spot in Detroit. Uh tell tell me, you're like, I want to cut some big shit. So you find a saw. Like what what Craigslist or how how do you find this thing?

SPEAKER_02 38:34

Um, I was looking for saws, and uh I actually I didn't know exactly what we needed because there's like a lot of ways to cut metal and like a lot of types of metals you can cut, a lot of different sizes, right? Um we almost went with this saw that could only cut 60 wide, and that would have done a decent amount for us, but like not as much as we could. And then um, you know, here comes my dad again, texting me, have you seen this one? And I was like, oh no, I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

He's got the old man network, dude. He like he knows he knows the secret like online auction places.

SPEAKER_02 39:09

Yeah, I I I think whatever he was looking, and uh I was like, Oh, okay, awesome, that's a cool saw. He's like, You want to fly to like you want to go see it? And I was like, I mean, yeah, you don't have to come with me. He's like, no, no, no. Like, let's go. And uh we fly down South Carolina, we see it fire up, we're like, whoa, this thing's awesome. It can cut a lot of the things we can do, and also like it's a super fast saw. So like normal shop band saws are like what 350 feet per minute. This one's like 8,000. Um so it just allows our throughput to go really high as well. And then like we're looking at that, and we're like, well, there's no other saws like this that can cut the 200 inches in each direction, 33 high, and then the speed for aluminum. And then we're like, well, let's just buy a new one. And I was talking to the sales guy, I was like, Yeah, any sales guy talked to you, he's like, Yeah, at least eight months, usually 12. Like, I would I guess I was like, you know what, I gotta buy this saw, let's get it here. So made an offer, they accepted it, and yeah, then you gotta like rig it, and like all the rigging costed like almost more than the saw itself. Yep. We had a good deal on it, but like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

I I would I would say that as a uh bit of caution to anyone listening. When you go to an auction, or if you go and see a piece of used equipment and you're like, oh man, that's that's a really good price, you have to get a rigging quote. Um, I've seen so many people there's so many like second auctions that happen because you go to an auction and then you know they buy an air compressor or something for 500 bucks and then they realize that it's uh$3,500 to move it from the auction site and then just sits there and then it gets auctioned again. That's why if you ever see something that sells at auction for like a dollar or ten dollars, it's because it's thirty thousand dollars to rig it. So yeah, sometimes that's why things get scrapped too.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:02

So yeah, you paid some kind of crazy amount for rigging. I feel very bad for you, but I can relate.

SPEAKER_02 41:07

It was worth it though. And uh we got here it's a danger. Pardon?

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Oh, I was gonna say that's also the danger of rigging, too. So you see this thing, it's underpower, and then you hope that it's gonna get disassembled and reassembled and work again.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Exactly. And I will say I got three quotes. I I wanted to get a thing going because we had like customers already that were telling us they wanted metal. I I do think that's maybe the one thing I've overpaid for so far. Um, and like we've like I like, don't get me wrong, like we've bought stuff that's like high quality and it's maybe like expensive, but like I do feel like we could have got a better price on it if we waited a little longer. The rigging.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

For the rigging, yeah. Yeah. Okay, one thing I'll tell you about rigging. You get what you pay for. And if you go with the lowest bidder on a rigging, they also have the shittiest straps and the shittiest forklifts and the lowest paid drivers. And it it seems expensive, but it's not as expensive as those guys dropping something off the truck. That's true. Everyone's seen like your brand new Haasp VF2 or whatever, and it falls on the on the side or falls on the ground because the riggers sucked. Um we we use a rigger in town, they're called ILS, and ILS is amazing. All of their trucks are like beautifully painted and polished and like they put armor all on the tires of all of their semis and stuff. Yeah. And so you know, like you know right away, like, ah shit, I'm probably overpaying for this, but those guys are amazing and they take such good care of the equipment. So I I wouldn't beat yourself up too much about it.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

That makes you feel a lot better, Jim. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 42:48

I'm I'm trying, I'm trying, man. Uh well, in industrial therapy here. Um so uh okay, so you get the thing, it arrives, it gets installed, and and you turn it on, did it work? Yeah, it worked. Fuck. Okay, that's amazing. It was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 43:04

It was like actually, this behind me is the first cut I ever did, October 16th. Oh, hell yeah. That got faded, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

That'll go in the museum for sure.

SPEAKER_02 43:15

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

Um, so so it starts running. How how long is that blade, by the way? Like what's the total feet? Holy crap. Is that is that like a proprietary blade? Are those easy to get? You can buy them.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Um, okay, but it's like 600 bucks for the blade. Oh, that's not that's actually not too bad.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

It seems like it would be more, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:39

Yeah, I mean, what I want to do one day is just make our own blades. Like I it's not even like the spending, it's just like you you actually need so many toothpicks for different material, and like you can really optimize your cutting. Um but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

How long do does a blade last?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Like the last one was three weeks. This one, hopefully two or three. Um, we do it more per the square inch. Um, okay. So it just depends how thick a material it's going for, going through how much you're cutting, all that stuff. But like it's funny. When we were scrap, like it used to be a week for us, and we just realized the feed rate was too high, and we were just like chewing down the teeth. Now that we got the feed rate well, the blades last so much longer, but they snap. I don't know why. Um, there's a reason why, but it's very common. I talked to my Pennsylvania friend, he said the same thing, but like it literally sounds like a bomb is going off in the shop when those things snap. There's a video of it on my Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 44:40

They're all it's under a shit ton of tension, right? Hydraulic tension to yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:45

Uh like it's uh I don't know, like 60 bar, um, and then like it's pure steel, and then it's going 5,000 feet per minute, and then it snaps, and you're it's just like literally sounds like 20 shotguns at once.

SPEAKER_01 45:03

And I've seen some videos, like sometimes you guys are kind of close to that, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:07

Yeah, it's super safe though. Um which is like surprising. They're designed to do that, so you can be like operating it, you can be next to it. Um, I guess as long as you're not like under the machine, which you should never be, anyways. Like you're fine.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Yeah, okay. Yeah. Um, but ever since that day, you know, the first cut, you guys have basically just not stopped. I mean, it seems like you guys are working as many hours as humanly possible to cut metal, right?

SPEAKER_02 45:36

It's actually not like that that is true. And like I always tell people this if we have metal on our floor, like someone needs it tomorrow. Um, and like, yeah, so the first like two months of the company was so funny. It was like four of us here. Now we're like 12, but like we'd work, at least we'd work all day to like do sales and software and um whatever. And then like 5 p.m. would hit. You throw on the overalls, you throw on your your jacket, um, and you start cutting like 5 p.m. 5 p.m. to like 10 p.m. sometimes a little later. Um, we're doing that for two months, and then we got to hire an operator, now we have three. Um actually have three but just gone way up, which is nice, but uh yeah, that's what we were doing for a bit. It was actually really fun.

SPEAKER_01 46:23

No, it's you'll you'll miss those days. Like there'll be there'll be a day when you don't have to put on steel toes and you'll be a little sad about it. So uh are you guys running around the clock now? Or 24-7 or almost? Okay. So you got a couple ships to fill.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Good yeah, like we also like if you were like 24-7, which we want to get to, and I think we can probably by like the end of the year, it's just like it's you need a lot of material, and uh yeah, it's just it's just a different beast, I think. So yeah, not there yet. Like we started, yeah, started cutting like five months ago. So I mean, Nox literally means of the night. So that's like the goal.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Yeah. No, I I I think that you guys are gonna be very, very uh well set up to you know, hey, order, order this afternoon, we're gonna cut through the night, it'll be on a truck the next morning. Like, I I think that's how you guys are gonna do it. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_02 47:20

That's that's the goal. I mean, someone should go to our website, instant quote, um, get a price, get a lead time, and in a lot of ideas, in a lot of worlds, like the metals at their front door in the morning, right? Yeah, I think you guys can probably understand the shipping problem sometimes, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah, yeah. Shipping is is a big challenge, especially big big heavy stuff, yes. Yeah, oh yeah. So so what's next for Knox? Like, what's what should people be excited about?

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah, I think what people should really just be excited about is like the software tools we're building. Like, I always kind of go to like what customers say, and like we had a customer yesterday that you know does work for like all the major defense primes, and they were just like, Hey, like, how can we set up like long-term agreements with Nox just so like I can go in and get a quote in two seconds and get the medal the next day, like all via the software, um, so that like I can win more work. Like that was that was really his argument. Um, it's all custom sizes, right? It's not like you can buy bar stock or anything. And then uh yeah, we're just like building like so much software right now. Like the we're doing a lot of like machine learning, so like our our job timing estimates is getting better, our nesting is getting better, what drops we hold is getting better, what inventory we carry is getting better. Like Knox should be able to predict what metal you uh like a manufacturer needs before they know they need it, um, based on historicals. Um yeah, and then and then just like you know, expanding more saws, more people, hopefully. And uh yeah, like the the goal of Nox is really like how do you make some of the biggest impacts on American manufacturers?

SPEAKER_01 48:56

So you're doing it, man. You're doing it. Um Thanks, John. I didn't I did see at one point you were talking a little bit about California. Is that is that a thing, maybe?

SPEAKER_02 49:05

Okay, yeah, we're actually hiring there now because we have a lot of customers in LA. Like I feel like every shipment we do goes to LA. Um, so yeah, we're we're just like really trying to prepare, get the right people in there that we trust. So like doing the hiring process early, but like having a shop out there in the aerospace and defense work out there is so strong, and they have such a strong need for aluminum, stainlesses, and inkanels that like it's like a no-brainer for us. So that's definitely location number two.

SPEAKER_01 49:35

Cool. Yeah, I think um as of right now, I think it's still legal to cut metal in in California. I I you I don't think you can melt it, I don't think you can vaporize it. Uh but you can probably just cut it with a salt. I think they'll allow that. I think that's a very good argument for Reno. Yeah, no, Reno, Reno's magic, um, or or even Vegas.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

Uh yeah, Clark County.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah, Vegas, Vegas is uh a great way to serve LA without being in LA.

unknown 50:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:04

We looked at if we looked at Yuma, Arizona as well. Okay. Do not do that. That's it. Oh why. I'm sorry, if you're in Yuma, um, that's amazing. But so if you ever see like the national uh temperature map, and they're like, oh, it's 70 in LA and it's 50 in Michigan, and it's like purple and red and whatever, Yuma is always it's like white. It's like a white spot on the map, and you're like, what the hell cut what is white? White is like nuclear hot. It's absolutely ridiculous. Um a little more challenging for raw materials and stuff there too. So Vegas is a little easier. Reno is good because we're along um I-80. But yeah, LA is is where it's at, man. I'm excited for you. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 50:48

Yeah, yeah, new too. Like you guys have been a huge support to us like in that emergency. We really appreciate it. And like always you get cool responses from you guys online, and like, you know, do I just feel like we're uh like all in this community internet together, so it's it's it's a blast.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

We are it is it is a community. Um, there's plenty of work for everyone, and you know, just seeing everyone uh kick ass when they need to kick ass and help when they need to help is is really really cool. So um we will we will definitely send you a PO. Uh I know when you first starting out, we we weren't um our our pricing, our in-house pricing was a little like pretty competitive to you. But now, especially with what we're doing in Billet Um 6061, and if you guys are shipping to California, you can you can just like stop by us real quick and and drop some off.

SPEAKER_02 51:40

So we'll send that over.

SPEAKER_01 51:49

Hell yeah. Um anything you want to say before we we wrap up?

SPEAKER_00 51:54

Oh, we have a piece of advice. I did not prepare for that question.

SPEAKER_01 51:57

Producer producer dom is saying, do you have do you have one piece of advice for someone listening? It can be about anything, but just uh a piece of advice that you want to leave the audience with.

SPEAKER_02 52:09

Yeah. Um if you can do if you think something is gonna take you ten days, try to do it in one.

SPEAKER_01 52:17

I like that. I like it. Okay, so uh let me let me go a little further. You think it's gonna take 10 days, but you you try and do it in one. Do you does that mean that you usually end it like two days, but you're still like super successful?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Because you've got to actually have to take one, but I think that's a goal. Like I I I guess I have like a unique perspective that just because like some of our customers need stuff really fast. Um and I think a lot of people lag on things, and like we've we've provided a lot of value to you know America's industrial base by just trying to like trying to make the impossible happen. So we provide a lot of value to people and you actually learn a lot in the process, which is is really fun.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

Yeah. Dude, that's awesome. Dude, thank you so much for your time. That is the end of the podcast. We'll leave it there. Um if you guys uh need metal, go check out uh what's the what's the web address? It's n oxmetals.co.co. Go check it out. Yeah. Um and then give a shout out to your ex as well. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 53:28

Oh, my ex. Um yeah, just at Zane Experger. Um, so I'm sure it'll be on here somewhere. Yeah, I'll put it on there.

SPEAKER_01 53:35

Yeah, Dom will link to it. So uh thanks for listening. And then we have a lovely outro that Dom did, and we're done. Do we have an outro? Am I supposed to say something?

SPEAKER_00 53:43

Can you say like thanks for listening? Love to have your feedback, find those uh on Instagram, YouTube at ZangHut Send.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

We just use that.

SPEAKER_00 53:50

Thanks for joining us on today's episode. If you have any questions, comments, or concerns, you can email us at just gonna send it at syncend.com or find us.